Everyone knows that Kobe Bryant patterned his game after the great Michael Jordan. From the dunks to the fadeaway to the swagger, Bryant took “Be Like Mike” to another level. But the Los Angeles Lakers legend also made it his goal to be better than Jordan early in his career.

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On Saturday night, TNT aired a special feature, a sit-down conversation between Shaquille O’Neal and Bryant discussing their relationship as teammates and many others. Part of that conversation included O’Neal’s earliest memories of Bryant wanting to be the greatest player ever.

Shaq: “You said you wanted to be the…finish it for me,”

Kobe: “The greatest player of all time?”

Shaq: “Yes. You remember telling me that?

Kobe: “No But that sounds like something that I would say.”

That’s the kind of arrogance that Bryant carried with him from the moment he took the floor in the NBA and it carried him all the way to his final game in the league when he scored 60 points, carving out a career like no other.

O’Neal also inquired Bryant about his special relationship with Jordan, whom he intended in the beginning to be a huge challenge that he needed to overcome, but it ended with them having a more personal relationship.

“When I came into the league, I wanted to take him on,” Bryant replied. “All I heard was they called him Black Panther, they called him Black Jesus, and all sorts of stuff. I wanted to see what this is about.”

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During Bryant’s second year in the league when he became an All-Star in the 1997-98 season, the Lakers young guard took on the Chicago Bulls legend when they faced each other one-on-one. Everyone could see that this wasn’t just an exhibition to Bryant. To him, this was an audition. He wanted to be the Next Jordan, the one who would carry the torch after Air Jordan retired (which he did after the season).

But then, something happened along the way.

“What happened is that he wound up becoming a big brother to me,” Bryant said. “He saw something in me that reminded a lot of himself when he was coming up. He took me under his wing a lot. Showed me a lot of things. Taught me a lot of things. Leadership things.”

Five championships and two Finals MVPs later, Bryant can confirm that if any player could be educated by any legend before them, Jordan is the best teacher to learn from.