“I'll challenge you to a deathmatch,” Danny Philippou said to his brother, Michael. The two brothers behind A24's new horror film, Talk to Me, are very clearly siblings. Their playful banter shows how two siblings are able to work with each other.
That said, it's not as if they don't get annoyed at each other. “We've noticed that we say ‘like' a lot in interviews,” Danny said.
“Hey, you've noticed,” Michael quickly replied.
This is the exchange that led to Danny laying down the deathmatch challenge to his brother.
But the duo, known for their YouTube channel RackaRacka, have come a long way from their rad WWE spot recreations. They just debuted their first directorial outing, Talk to Me, which has been a great success for A24.
ClutchPoints spoke to the two brothers about their WWE roots, underground wrestling, filming in Australia, a Talk to Me prequel (which we reported prior to The Hollywood Reporter), and hoping to create a legacy greater than YouTube.
Talk to Me directors Michael and Danny Philippou interview
ClutchPoints: I'm a WWE fan so I was just curious, were you guys recreating moves as kids? Because I know as a kid, I did that with my friends and it hurt… a lot.
Danny Philippou: Oh my God — yeah, we did [smiles]. We grew up loving backyard wrestling as children.
Michael Philippou: And we quickly spiraled into—do you know what deathmatch wrestling is?
CP: No — what is that?
MP: So that's when you use fluorescent tubes, thumb tacks, barbed wire — like it's really extreme wrestling. When we were kids, we started off WWE and then when we discovered deathmatch wrestling, it started getting really dangerous really quickly.
Both: [laugh]
MP: So that's what we used to do as kids. I've done a few live events as well. It's mainly surrounding yourself with professionals, like all those guys that we were with professional wrestlers, and then it's like, “What's the easiest one [bump] for me?” Basically, the ones [when] the moves are happening to me, it's just me just getting smashed — someone elbow-dropping me off a ladder.
And it does hurt.
DP: It was always fun for me to film Michael getting hurt [smiles].
MP: [smiles] Yeah, Danny's always just filmed, “Oh, oh, oh — are you okay?” and I'm just like, “Yeah.”
CP: Do you guys still watch WWE at all?
DP: We're more following these deathmatch circuits.
I do keep up to date with a lot of [WWE] — we really love Dominik Mysterio and Rhea Ripley.
MP: Rey Mysterio is the nicest person on the planet. We were able to film with him a few years ago and I've never met someone so embracing of fans and just so loving and like open and fun.
Genuinely the coolest guy I've ever met.
DP: We loved it.
CP: Funny you mentioned Rhea Ripley as I was going to say that there are a couple of prominent Australian WWE wrestlers — Grayson Waller and Ripley — and I was wondering if you guys watched either of them and what your thoughts were on them.
DP: Yeah, I love Rhea Ripley and Dominik Mysterio.
MP: Is she Adelaide?
DP: Yeah, she's from Adelaide. She just posted about the film last night. Which is really cool.
MP: Oh, really? That's amazing.
We met her right before she went to the WWE, I'm pretty sure… yeah, because she was like friends with Dane, [turns to me] a guy that we did some wrestling with.
DP: I just like that Dominik Mysterio, he did this whole thing with the kendo sticks and it seemed to revert back to [the] WWF era — it was so hardcore, I loved it. Yeah, I'm into that.
MP: There was also one where he did this massive dive onto the announcers' table from inside the ring — it was crazy. There was no safety about it, he just dove head first!
DP: Yeah, that's my favorite right now, Dominik.
MP: And who's that chick… what's her name, with the purple hair — Sasha Banks? She goes 100% every time, you know she can't stop performing, which is amazing as well.
CP: So did you guys see the Dominic Mysterio entrance at Wrestlemania with the cop cars and all that?
DP: Yeah, of course. It was awesome [laughs].
CP: Last WWE question for you guys. I know so it sounds like Michael, you're the one more active in doing the actual wrestling, but with people like Logan Paul jumping over to WWE from YouTube, is that something that'd be of interest if offered?
MP: I'd be more interested in doing the underground circuit, like the deathmatch stuff. Like, if I was gonna do one, yeah, I'd want to do a deathmatch. That's just me, personally.
When we used to play the old games, like Smackdown vs. Raw, you could choose the stage — you could choose the grand WrestleMania stage, or the dingy [indie circuit] stage and there's like five people in the room. That's the stage we always liked. I liked that vibe. I mean, I don't know. That's just me personally.
DP: [laughs]
MP: [in a facetious whiney voice] Maybe I'm just jealous that I'll never get the chance.
CP: Maybe someday we'll see you take on Dominik Mysterio in one of those deathmatches.
Both: [laugh]
MP: [smiles] That's great.
DP: He might be down!
CP: Getting into Talk to Me, we're about a week removed now from it coming out and it was a big success, right? You guys went toe-to-toe with Mission: Impossible this past weekend. How does it feel to have the movie out there and people responding to it?
DP: Oh man, we feel like we've been waiting. I'm so excited that it's finally out and people get to experience it and throughout this month in August, it's starting to hit all the other territories, so we can't wait for it to start being released in Mexico and all these places.
MP: The coolest thing is just seeing Sophie [Wilde] up on screens and people seeing her and all our cast. I think our young cast is so amazing. And also seeing the trailer dubbed in all different languages and stuff is so cool.
And then people that like the film [are] doing their own [version], like this is my version of like an art piece of talking to me. Like all that stuff is so amazing. Well, I can't even speak.
DP: We've noticed that we say “like” a lot in interviews.
MP: Hey, you've noticed.
DP: It drives me insane now!
MP: I can't say “like” now.
DP: I'll challenge you to a deathmatch [smiles].
CP: Talk to Me opens with a really cool long take at a house party. Long takes are used in so many films. So I was curious, for each of you guys, do you have a favorite one from any movie?
DP: Well, I mean, the greatest recent one has been Athena for Netflix. It's one of the greatest one-takes of all time.
MP: You shouldn't be talking about ours, [you] should be talking about theirs! Theirs is gigantic.
DP: It's pretty insane.
MP: I'm trying to think… Children of Men has some great ones. And then there's a really good famous one [from] Alfred Hitchcock — an old one where it goes up to the drummer (in Young and Innocent).
DP: Children of Men and Athena.
CP: I read in a different interview, you guys were talking about filming in Australia and that you guys want to keep filming things there — I think you guys mentioned that the culture is different. Could you expand upon that a little bit.
DP: Yeah, everyone roasts each other and they're comfortable [smiles]. I think with the filmmaking, there's a rawness to it or something. Like if you look at those old-school exploitation films, they had a bit of a rawness to Australian films.
MP: Before YouTube, we crewed on films. So a lot of people that were on our film set, we'd actually worked with before [so] there was already a pre-established connection [and] friendships from caterers, grips, gaffers, stunt guys — these are all people that we had worked with before.
I remember being on set like 10 years ago and going, “Oh, when we do a movie, I'm going to get Sonya to be caterer,” and then actually [being able to] do that.
DP: Cause you can see which crew members are really, really passionate and really want to be there and are excited to be there. So they're the people that we want to be around.
MP: Making the film is tough. Making it with strangers is tougher. So having people that you know just makes it easier. [It's] like you're just going with friends and making some stuff. It's just fun.
CP: So the camaraderie that you guys had with your crew is the biggest thing?
MP: They probably don't want to work with us again after Talk to Me [smiles].
DP: Well, they're not my crew anyway.
Both: [laugh]
CP: I know from talking to actors and directors about horror films that it's always less scary making them, right? But did anything ever freak anybody out in the crew or cast?
DP: Yeah. One of the guys that worked on the hands, when he delivered it, he quit — we don't know why [laughs]. So there was that.
And then also, the hospital that we shot in was getting renovated and apparently it was haunted and we'd all sneak back into the hospital after shooting had wrapped and we'd have slumber parties in some of the haunted rooms.
MP: And we did hear something.
DP: Yeah. We heard something in a room in the hospital.
MP: [flatly] The alarm.
Both: [laugh]
MP: We went in there and then the alarm went off. [We were] like, “Oh crap.” We snuck past the security guard and the alarm went off.
DP: Well, Michael ran home, but one of the nights we were in there, there [were] noises in another room, but I could have been a creaky [floor].
MP: That was the alarm.
Both: [laugh]
CP: I'm sure there probably were numerous prop hands, but do either of you guys have one of them?
DP: Yeah, there [were] six of them made for the film because there [we needed] backups just in case one got damaged.
MP: [laughs] Everyone was kind of scared of it. When the guy delivered the hand, everyone kind of treated it with a respect because it's like, Why did he quit?
Something spooked him out when he was making the hand. So the actual one on set [was the only one] — we didn't use any other ones.
DP: So that one's in my bedroom, the main one. And then the others—
MP: Sophie's got one, the producers have one, and there's three in the abyss somewhere. I don't know where they are.
CP: I think the concept is so clever — I'm not sure if it's based on any sort of lore — but growing up, I remember going over to friend's houses and do those games like Bloody Mary and such. Did you guys ever do any of those growing up?
DP: [smiles] Yeah, all of them.
And we definitely wanted to make our own urban legend, our own urban myth. That was the exciting thing [about making Talk to Me], to create something that, you know, in 10 years, if they do start selling the prop hands, people can bring out and scare children, that's fun.
MP: There's this place called Old Tallem Town Pioneer Village in South Australia, and there's this haunted house there. Apparently, if you sit in the back room, that's like the most haunted [area] and people get thrown around. I went in and I sat down, as a kid, and I tried to call talk to the spirit, “Hey, would you make a sound?” and I heard [makes a cracking sound].
It could have been anything, but because I didn't think it was real, I heard something and I just bolted out of there and didn't look back. I thought it was tough going in — “I'll do it!” — and I got so scared… yeah, I never went back.
CP: You guys seem funny and have that sibling rapport — would you guys ever consider doing a comedy movie?
DP: Yeah, man, we would love to explore all different genres — comedies and action, 100%.
MP: I think our stuff will naturally have comedy in it. Talk To Me has got those comedy beats, we can't help ourselves, I guess.
Life's never just one emotion. We wanted the film's characters to be three-dimensional, and humor's just a part of life.
But a straight comedy? Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to it at all.
CP: And you just mentioned the characters are three-dimensional, which kind of leads to my next question. Dan, you co-wrote this script—
MP: Well, we hope, anyway [laughs].
CP: I think that what's great about this film is that it balances not just horror, but there are elements of grief, and I also love the idea of peer pressure — especially with the social media factor. Danny, could you talk to me a little bit about finding the balance of those themes with the horror?
DP: Well, I know that we really wanted to create [something that] works as a horror film and as a drama film. And I know that the horror for me, when I get scared, is when I do care for the characters. And so that's what we really tried to have for this film [was] characters that were relatable in some way — at least one or two of them — to sort of connect with and then like really feel the tension when things go wrong.
MP: Even if you don't agree with what the decisions characters are making, I think hopefully you can empathize with them and understand why they're doing it.
CP: You're right, though. There are some frustrating scenes where you kind of yell at the characters, right?
DP: [smiles] Yeah, horror movie logic.
MP: Teenager logic!
CP: That's the other part of it. Nowadays, everyone has iPhones and is on them 24/7. Can you talk to me about implementing that part of the story?
MP: We wanted to make a film that was current and modern, and naturally, social media is our job. That's all we've been doing for the last 10 years, we're YouTubers so that naturally was going to be there in there anyway.
And if we want to make relatable characters, like who's not on their phone? Not just teenagers, everyone [is, and] it's like an addiction. So it was always going to be in there, but it was kind of exploring the negatives of it as well, because there [are] positives and negatives of almost everything, but social media, especially.
CP: A lot of YouTube is about sensationalizing titles, so would you be able to change the title of Talk to Me to fit the YouTube format?
DP: I'd use our pitch for it, which is “kids use demonic possession to get high,” that [in all] capitals.
MP: “POSSESSED PEOPLE GONE TOO FAR” [with] exclamation marks.
CP: “Not clickbait.”
Both: [laugh]
DP: Well, it's not clickbait! It's totally [real]… we served the dish [laughs].
Spoiler warning: The following question discusses Talk to Me's ending
CP: With a film as successful as Talk to Me, you could always do a sequel, right? There are a lot of ways you could go — you could go with a brand new set of characters, new cast, [and] new story; you could also explore Mia's (Sophie Wilde) side of it right now that she's now on the other side of the head; or you can explore Jade and Riley. Do any of those sound appealing to you?
MP: They all do.
DP: Yeah, that's the thing. There are versions that we have for each of these things and we're excited by each of those avenues and it's just [about] exploring and finding what naturally has the story that feels the strongest.
MP: There [are] pages for each of those that you said [laughs]! Especially when you're writing and if you are connected with the characters in the story, you can't help but write — Danny was writing scenes for after [the events of Talk to Me], even when we [were] without the idea of a sequel. You just naturally do that.
DP: [You] just explore until [and] you always think of it like, “What happens after this?” and then, yeah, you just keep writing.
CP: I think Hayley (Zoe Terakes) and Joss (Chris Alosio) are also really interesting and they have a tie to Cole (Ari McCarthy) from the beginning of the film. It could be cool to see that past explored in a prequel or something.
DP: Well, there is a prequel that we shot already, that may be put on the internet somewhere, and then people can try and find it.
CP: Well, I'll have to investigate that. I had no idea.
DP: [It's] not yet [out], but I'm saying it's something that we have shot.
MP: You're the first to hear about that.
CP: One of the things I'm interested in is the visualization of Riley's soul being taken by the spirits. Danny, could you talk to me about writing that, and then can both of you talk about making that come to life?
DP: You described little beats of things happening, and so we sort of explored the darker side of humanity there and had all these really strong, visceral, messed up imagery, and so we shot that stuff and then with the edit, peeled it right back and just had little glimpses of it.
Initially, the scene went for two minutes, 20 [seconds] or two minutes, 40 [seconds], or something like that. And we cut it down to 15 seconds because it just felt too schlocky.
MP: It suddenly turned to some crazy, 70s B-grade slasher thing. I don't know.
DP: Yeah, it felt too extreme. So we just pulled it back and just had little flashes in that scene. If you went back and watch, there [are] some little flashes of some of that stuff that we'd shot, but yeah, it went through so many different drafts, and even while we were shooting, it was going through new drafts cause you're seeing what's possible on the day and what we can achieve.
I don't know. It was a lot bigger, that's all I remember.
MP: Yeah, it's, it's one thing writing it, and then seeing some [of the] stuff that you describe, it's like, “Oh, that's [a lot].”
The first time that we got funding, we were like, “A car falls from [the] sky,” and then you rock up on set and there's a crane holding it tight [and you're like], “Wow, not bad — that's a reality now.”
DP: You start shooting and then you're like, “Oh yeah, we're in hell. Well, this is in there,” and then when you start shooting, you're like, “Oh, actually, maybe not” [laughs].
CP: Hypothetically, just say if you were given a $50 million budget, is there one thing that you would have really loved to have implemented into the film? It could be the crane or the car that you just mentioned.
DP: I know that there was — we won't specify what scene — but there was a transformation sequence that was going to happen in the movie where we saw one character turn into another and we couldn't achieve that in the time and budget that we had. So we relied on editing for that and it was stronger. Well, I say that [but] I don't know what it would be like with the transformation, but I would have loved to have the time and the budget to do that.
MP: Well, we had this thing called the… what was it called?
DP: Ghost unit.
MP: Well, we were just going to shoot that stuff outside of production [laughs] and I'm with the producer, [and] she's like, “You're not allowed to do that. You can't just add two days [onto production],” [and] we're like, “Oh, so if this footage just showed up on the desk, we're not going to use it?” So we [didn't end up] doing that, but then in the edit, it works without it.
But we were on standby to shoot a transformation.
DP: Yeah, the ghost unit [was] assembled, but then we disassembled it because the mission was no longer required.
CP: I don't know if I've ever seen a YouTube horror film, so if you were to make one, what's the scariest aspect of being a YouTuber that you could adapt into a film?
DP: I think a thing that would really interest me — actually, I think I want to make it [laughs]. Yeah, I could answer this question, but I'm scared of someone else going, “Oh! [and making it]”
There's a part of social media that is really scary and interesting to me, and I think all creators face it as well.
MP: It is such a new thing — like, the whole [concept of] social media, like we don't really know the effects, until down the line, of the whole thing. Even with YouTubers, that whole YouTube and being a YouTuber is such a new thing.
There [are] some big [YouTubers out there] — Mr. Beast, Nelk, and Logan Paul — but it's still the really early days of it. So it's interesting to [think] like, “Oh, down the line, they'll be remembered.”
DP: I wonder [if] in a hundred years when they look back on these creators, I wonder if there are going to people be people like those old school stars — you know, Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton — are they gonna be YouTubers that people go back and remember?
Talk to Me is in theaters now.
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