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“This has been crazy,” said Kevin Robert Kesar — who fans formerly knew as WWE Superstar Karrion Kross — over Zoom while talking about his book: Life Is Fighting. “People have been clapping for Karrion Kross, and now people are clapping for Kevin Kesar; I don't think many people have clapped for that guy in his life, and I don't know what to do with it. I appreciate it.”
ClutchPoints was fortunate to have just under an hour with Kross over Zoom to discuss his memoir. While he plays a menacing, borderline scary character on TV, the real Kesar is just a normal guy, chatting from his home.
Note: This interview was conducted before his WWE release.
Over the last few months, Kross has become beloved by fans. People are encountering him in everyday situations, such as at stoplights or while his wife, Elizabeth Chihaia, better known as Scarlett Bordeaux in WWE, is getting her car serviced. He compared it to people whispering “Hail Hydra” in people's ears in the Captain America movies.
Invasive? Maybe. But Kross is grateful for the fans' support. He gained traction with his social media videos and made the most of his limited TV time (which was usually delegated to backstage segments, not matches).
It wasn't always easy. Kross had a disastrous run on the main roster before his release in 2021, and even after his 2022 return, he and Scarlett were in limbo for a while. Still, he had to make it work with the limited opportunities he was given.
“It's pretty unbelievable,” said Kross of his almost sudden rise in popularity. “You guys see what's on TV and what's online. [chuckles] This s**t happens during the week, not [just] with the masses that you would [see] at a wrestling event.”
As for what fans see at the shows, such as Monday Night RAW, Kross called it “very validating,” adding, “I just feel appreciated on a whole other level. I never thought you could feel this way before.”
Peeling back the curtain on Kevin Kesar
Fans are now praising his work with his book, writing letters, and sharing heartfelt stories.
“I feel really grateful about all of this,” Kross said. “This is not the life I thought I would have when I was in my 20s — I thought things were not gonna be good right about now. But they are, and I'm really grateful.”
You may be surprised to learn that fans have such a connection with a WWE character as conniving as Karrion Kross, but it's true. Nowadays, WWE is becoming very relaxed about kayfabe and has even produced a documentary series that gives away the secrets of the trade called Unreal.
To Kross, it's a compromise of the old and new ideologies. Vince McMahon built WWE up with Superstars who were “larger than life.” Nowadays, they are seen as human beings.
“It's really different with the comfort of the professional wrestling industry, letting people back through the curtain and humanizing all of us as performers, as opposed to the original concept of being larger than life, or at the very least, marrying the two,” he explained. “Hey, these guys are larger than life, but they're not always larger than life. They are also people, too. They could be living next door.
“The way people engage with me is far different than the way it used to be, and it was never bad — [I've] never had a negative engagement with a person over wrestling, but the subject of the conversation is very different. [It] is more about wanting to see me succeed and enjoying my work versus, ‘I loved what you did last week.' It's more meaningful now.”
Why did he write the book?
Kross is a self-proclaimed “people pleaser,” which may explain why he wrote his book. He grew up being told he should write a book, and he was also a “good shoulder to cry on.”
Now, even Kross — who is also a self-proclaimed pop culture “nerd” — put on Superman's cape to save the day. However, he always wanted to help people, which may have stemmed from what he lacked as a kid. Writing his book, which is the best kind of self-help book but the worst advertisement for pro wrestling, was an outlet to continue helping people improve themselves.
“If you read the book, you know my parents split. So, maybe subconsciously, in the back of my mind, as a kid growing up, I really was yearning for connection with people and something that felt like family,” he reasoned.
Unlike some memoirs, Life Is Fighting is not a linear story. Like a good setlist, Kross interweaves his biggest hits with various stories from his childhood and young adulthood. It never feels jumbled, and Kross pieced it together at a moving rhythm.
It seemed like it was easy for Kross, who just “put my ideas to paper and began to formulate an order that I thought people would enjoy reading in.”
Granted, he had some help: “Having people close to me to review my work and help me organize it was really important as well.”
He still kept their help at arm's length so as not to “influence” his story.
“I didn't want any sort of particular influence [on] my story because it's my story,” Kross said. “If you were to ask for advice on something, you are asking for someone else's process to do something that should be your process, if that makes sense.”
Writing a good wrestling memoir comes down to making it about anything but the squared circle. For Kross, he didn't approach Life Is Fighting as a wrestling book — it “just happens to be a part of my life.”
Why it's “scary” for Karrion Kross
Perhaps that is why the meaningful interactions with fans mean so much. Still, he occasionally gets “freaked out” despite feeling “good” about his book.
It wasn't due to people's reactions to the book; Kross was confident in how they'd feel. However, Kross appears to still be getting used to being Kevin Kesar in front of fans.
“I'm just nervous to just be me in front of people,” he revealed. “That's the thing I'm really nervous about, and I've gone on the record to say a couple [of] times [that] it's easy to play a character, 'cause it's not you. Whether the character is silly or he loses a fight or says something that you wouldn't actually say, there's a safety net there, but when it's actually you, there's no safety net.”
Even still, he remains “glad” that he wrote the book. Even if some don't find use out of his advice, he is certain they will be entertained.
In Life Is Fighting, Kross warns his sister and mother several times. He hopes they won't be “mortified” by various stories. One instance involves him smoking in his younger years. At the time, his mother knew he was — she did not endorse it — but he hid it from his sister.
So, at a house party, Kross took a smoke break outside. A confrontation ensued, and Kross ended up pulling someone's hair out. The story needs to be read to be believed, but it's a wild ride. Luckily, his sister was forgiving of his smoking habits.
“She knew it,” he conceded, “She just didn't know that I had almost ripped a piece of the guy's hair off.”
Was he “sabotaged” during his first WWE main roster run?
Before his first WWE release, Kross was called up to the main roster. At the time, he was coming off a dominant run as NXT Champion in WWE's developmental brand.
He lost the belt to Samoa Joe, who is now in AEW. Joe, at the time, was a bona fide star. Unlike most of the NXT stars, he didn't need a belt to solidify himself.
It's something Kross discusses in his book. But the match happened, and Kross went to the main roster. Immediately, something was different. Kross' presentation changed, and he was wearing goofy outfits that looked like they were from adult-only videos. His first match lasted under two minutes in a losing effort to Jeff Hardy.
It didn't get much better before his release in November 2021. In his book, Kross never outright calls it “sabotage,” but it's heavily implied. I asked him outright if he felt it was “sabotage,” and he conceded it, even if, at the time, he didn't want to admit it.
“Yeah, it did feel like that,” he admitted. “I was trying to tell myself that it wasn't that way; I didn't want to actually believe it was that way because it's demoralizing. But in my heart, I knew it was that, and everyone I spoke to knew it.”
The “hardest” part for Kross was his interaction with fans. You don't generally want them telling you that “you're being screwed over on TV,” and here they are, upset on his behalf.
“Instead of having a really good interaction with somebody [where] they're talking about how they enjoyed something, they're mad on your behalf because they're watching something and feel like their intelligence is being insulted and you're being taken advantage of,” he explained.
What makes it hard is that Kross doesn't want fans to revolt against them or dislike WWE. We will see how that changes after his second departure, but Kross will likely stand his ground.
He tried his best
His initial release was not completely on him. “Sabotaged” or not, he tried to make sure WWE higher-ups knew what to do with his character.
Among the ways he tried to do this was by giving them a detailed outline of his character. It is laid out in the book, and Kross is detailed, if nothing else.
He knew he had to do something like this to stand out from the pack. Kross knows WWE is filled with high flyers and powerhouses, so how could Karrion Kross make an impact on WWE's audience?
“I wanted to speak more on a business level to them because they are businessmen and they need to figure out how they can make money off this character and understand the ins and outs,” Kross explained. “So, I really tried to speak to them from there.”
He's not alone
For as isolating as professional wrestling can be, Kross has a steady hand behind him. Scarlett, whose government name is Elizabeth Chihaia-Kesar, comes as part of the package deal.
When they first started dating, they were not around each other a lot. So, they had to maximize their time together. Nowadays, they are traveling and working together, making it a little easier.
Even still, they have mandated a weekly date night to give themselves a chance to reconnect. This is especially important since they didn't have as much time to vacation while with WWE.
“We make sure we have one mandatory date night a week,” he revealed. “We're together the rest of the time — we're training or cooking or cleaning or building.”
His “very big mistake” upon his WWE return
Everyone makes mistakes; it's human nature. One thing Kross conceded was that he and his wife made a crucial one when they returned to the company. In his book, Kross called the decision to go back a no-brainer. “Elizabeth [aka Scarlett] and I didn't even need to discuss it,” Kross writes in his book.
Ever since their release, they had talked about going back. Now, the opportunity was presenting itself, and they were ready for it.
Perhaps some discussions would have helped the rocky start of their second tenure with WWE. At times, Kross and Scarlett would disappear for months at a time, losing any momentum they may have built.
“We made a very big mistake in one aspect,” Kross said, “We didn't clarify a way we should have moved forward in particular, because we were under the assumption that we were gonna be doing exactly what we did in NXT in terms of presentation.
“We all collectively had conversations about how we were gonna proceed forward, and it was kind of generalized,” he continued.
To be clear, Karrion Kross was not unhappy with how they returned to WWE.
“It definitely was not bad when we came back,” he acknowledged. “We went right off [working with] Drew [McIntyre], and we were working PLEs. It was very fun.”
And then it all came crashing down. “That fell off for a variety of reasons,” he said, and they didn't have a game plan for that.
“I wish that we took a little bit more time to bulletproof what it was that we were gonna be doing, so it didn't fall off for fans watching,” he said, looking back. “One of the worst things that can happen is when you unplug one of the wrestlers from their continuity of what fans are expecting and want, because now the fans are watching with skepticism instead of being immersed.
“You never wanna do anything or say anything that ruins the immersion,” Kross continued. “And sometimes, that happens in wrestling, and that's when people just watch in confusion, rather than enjoyment.”
What's next for Karrion Kross after his WWE release?
Everyone's question for Kross following the news of his release is, “What's next?” Surely, he will have offers from other promotions, but what about life after wrestling?
In Life Is Fighting, Kross expresses his desire to eventually have kids. Raising a family while being on the road 52 weeks a year isn't necessarily a recipe for success.
There are lessons Kross learned from his upbringing that he would apply to parenthood. He knows he would not be perfect, but he would try his best.
“I would do my absolute best to be there as often as possible,” Kross said. “As a father, [I'd] just try to be there and soak up every moment possible because life is really precious, man, and you never know when it's over.”
What helps Kross is that he doesn't “sweat stuff anymore.” Now that he's older, he has gained the knowledge that “the most precious things in life are the moments you have with the people that you care about.”
An example of the prime memories he wants to have with his kids is the small moments with fellow wrestlers. Kross “enjoyed” almost every one of his matches; it's the moments while being on the road he remembers. He wants to recall the landmarks and the small milestones with his kids.
“That's the type of stuff I would want to be around for and make sure I could make happen as often as possible, being a dad,” he concluded.
His wrestling future
At the time we spoke, Kross was still under contract with WWE before his release. Ultimately, he would not be re-signed. So, he became a free agent after it expired on Sunday, August 10, 2025.
It was palpable even then that Kross wished he could have done more. There were plenty of ideas that he never got to realize in WWE. Maybe someday he will get the chance. That does not appear to be now.
“Everything,” Kross said after I asked what else he wanted to do in WWE. “Winning singles titles, I think, even being an odd couple, me tag [teaming] with someone who would be very unexpected, who's the polar opposite of me, could be very fun, winning the tag titles. Continuing to work, singles matches on PLEs would be very important.
“More than anything, just making sure that people are enjoying what they're watching. I'm a people pleaser. I'm easily satisfied — I'm not a bougie person — I don't need a lot to be happy. I find comfort in the most simple things, and why I do this job now is to make people happy and to make sure they have a good time.
“More than anything, I wanna do the things that people wanna see me do in WWE. That's most important to me — having a really good story is more important to me than winning belts. And, of course, I'd love to win belts. Those are amazing laurels to have for your career looking back,” he continued.
Ultimately, it is unclear if Karrion Kross will ever see those ideas out in WWE. However, Life Is Fighting, as his book suggests, and he will do it somewhere: “I know my ideas will translate to them [the fans] having a good time.”
With that kind of confidence, the sky is the limit. It just appears he will have to keep on fighting.
Karrion Kross's book, Life Is Fighting, is available now.
